|
Post by Amelia on Aug 3, 2004 1:06:18 GMT -5
I don't want to come in here and barge in on this really wonderful community you've created here but I have to ask: the idea of daemons is of course very old, dating back to Socrates, but the specific idea of an animal-formed daemon has pretty much been drawn from a work of FICTION by Philip Pullman. They are awesome books but I must ask, what is your relationship to the fact that these books are fiction? Is it that Pullman has cast something that is in fact real as mere fantasy? Also, how come we can't get a corporeal daemon when Will was able to render his daemon, Kirjava, corporeal? Also, Pullman revealed that daemons are named by the daemons' human's parents' daemons, not by the human. So we shouldn't be naming our daemons, they should already be named. How do I see my daemon and know what form it is? I know I have to imagine it, but surely it must be more than that; imagining means it isn't real, and these are supposed to be real. So how do I know, or perceive, the daemon? That aside, I think I may have felt the pulling of the link between us, as from time to time I will feel that cold "longing" out of the blue, for no apparent reason, and it seems to focus on my heart. It is usually when I am wet and cold, as in getting out of the bath or shower, although not always. Any thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by Aleandra on Aug 3, 2004 4:27:19 GMT -5
Hi Amelia, welcome to the boards! Well you do have some interesting questions there, and i'll try to answer them, but some of my answers won't be the same with other people.This is just my point of view.
Of course Philip Pullman's works are fiction, and to me they are just that. Fiction. I don't take his version as the bible, but it's just the closest (and most acurate) anyone's come to interpret this abstract idea. I take it as a guideline. So some things in the books aren't the same with us. For example we name our daemons. In my case it's just that i feel more comfortable naming my own soul, it's part of me anyway. and my parents don't beleive in this any way, which makes daemon-naming hard. Of course there's a part of imagination in perceiving them, but that's just their outer appearance. And even that isn't entierly up to you. When i was serching for Kay's form, i just let my thoughts wander and (this sounds corny) "follow my heart". I feel a presence with me everyday and that's a bit like Kay's un-refined form. But with a bit of imagination and going with my intuition (yes that's far better than that corny phrase) i can "see" him as a cat. But that's just me. And maybe the fact that you feel the tug when you're wet and cold is that you daemon maybe doesn't like water.(then it could help you find it's form) Hope i answered your question in a satisfactory manner, and if i didn't, well don't be afraid to ask again!
|
|
|
Post by Okibi on Aug 3, 2004 9:20:23 GMT -5
About Pullman's books being fiction... This is what I said about that in the debate:
"Personally, I don't really care what Pullman would think, because I don't believe he created dæmons. Sure, 'e might've come up with that specific spelling, and was the first person to become aware that they settled around puberty and could have a unique name... but the basic concept of "dæmons" and similar companions has existed all throughout history, even if repressed during some periods.
Since dæmons are real, one person out of the billions on Earth was bound to become aware of their presence without being told. (This probably happened more in the past because people weren't automatically told the creatures were 'just imaginary friends and they needed a psychiatrist.') It was a subconscious awareness - like meditating without doing it purposely. Didn't Pullman say dæmons first came to his mind while he was staring at a blank wall? We can assume at this time his surroundings were tranquil.
Whether this author fully understands it or not, he reintroduced the internal partner idea to our generation. No.. our century. Actually, probably much farther back than that. Animal totems, guardian angels, dæmons, Kas, familiars, Dal'fek, Aku-Akus... Most were a respected, common, and important part of an ethnic's culture, before the world became defined by scientific discoveries that labeled spiritual guides as nonsense because they couldn't be weighed, tangible, or experimented on. Not keeping such beliefs alive was a mistake, in my opinion.
Long ago, technology and "superior Europeans" weren't around to distract these groups from their practices. Even if they saw or came to meet their dæmons in different ways, they all felt that other presence inside them. The counterpart's purpose was the same: to give the human wisdom, guidance, and strength.
Technological advances aren't a bad thing, of course, but why can't science and philosophy live in harmony for once? Just because something isn't scientific doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it, or that the person should stop believing in it."
And like Aleandra said, HDM gave us guidelines rather than strict rules, because dæmons are not physical here. For exmaple, our parents' dæmons cannot name our dæmon. (Quite frankly, the idea annoys me. I wouldn't want anyone but me naming MY soul. And knowing my parents, Rookie and I would dislike whatever name they chose.)
Yes, Kirjava was corporeal during some of the story, but not at the very end, when Will entered his own world again. Then his dæmon was back to being inside him, and he had to envision her form like we do. There's no way to make our dæmons physical, which is probably a good thing. =P
Sorry if this discourages you, but you *must* imagine a starting form for your dæmon. Else he has nothing to work with... But eventually his forms will become more and more 'real,' up to the point where you'd believe you could reach out and stroke his fur. One of these animals will probably be his settled one, and you'll know it's real once he does settle. ...There have been people who said their dæmon's form came to them in a dream, but I wouldn't hold out on that. In my dreams, Rookie has only been a Pikachu and lynx. XD He's a black coyote instead. Anyway, you would see how real your dæmon was if you gave him a chance. Maybe you can start off by mentally conversing with him, and not envisioning his body until you believe you know what it is. But I find it's easier for someone to see their dæmon changing beside them, and recognize the most common forms. Oh. I'm gonna quote myself again:
"See, if a person really doesn’t force their dæmon to become anything, and just kind of observes what it naturally changes into... the dæmon will become creatures that really reflect them. It may "fake" a form for entertainment, but this can’t last long. I always think about how my favorite animals are a red fox, osprey, and ermine. If Rookie became these forms all the time just because they were eye candy to me, then yes, maybe it would seem that he wasn’t really a dæmon. But Rookie can only be true to what he is, and he honestly doesn’t like any of those forms (except the ermine, but he rarely becomes that any more). Instead he’s Japoro almost 24-7, and what is Japoro to me, outside of my dæmon? Japoro is a creature that is in four episodes of an animé - only two of which I’ve even seen. But whether I’ve seen all of the show or not doesn’t matter. I think he was meant to settle as Japoro, and he will no matter what."
EDIT: Yes, I now know he'll instead settle as a black coyote and not Japoro, but it's the same basic idea. It never crossed my mind that he could be a coyote. I prefer wolves and foxes to them.
Does that clear things up?
I can't say that I have any advice on your "longing" episodes right now... But I'll try to get back to you on that.
|
|
|
Post by SNL_Ali on Aug 13, 2004 2:06:39 GMT -5
Of course its fiction--but I've always supported the idea of a sort of (you all are going to hate this) guardian angel with you all the time, with everyone having one, to lead you on the right path. Theyr'e YOU and your'e them, thats how I've always seen it. I guess after reading these books and thinking to myself that maybe these beings don't have to be human (I could never picture mine as one), it just makes more sense. Perhaps out daemons, or concience, our soul, CAN be human if we want them to. But we all here have read the books and found out that they don't have to be, and maybe thats why they are. Thats what makes me feel less insane--that I'm not talking to myself, I'm talking with my guardian angel! *uber-lame moment*. I guess maybe thats why we haven't found a name yet--it just feels a little strange slapping a name on my soul. But I've been going through so much so early on in my life, maybe thats why he settled early, but ever since I've discovered what form he is, I've felt so much more confident about myself--I don't question any more. And that was really off-topic, but oh well. Just my two-bits that don't make much sense, yay.
|
|
|
Post by maia on Aug 13, 2004 11:17:54 GMT -5
Don't worry, it made sense to us......Welcome to the forum by the way. By the way, don't feel pressured to name your daemon. You'll both know when the right name comes along.
|
|
Ra
dæmian
- ra + rome; resident wolverines -
Posts: 321
|
Post by Ra on Aug 13, 2004 14:10:07 GMT -5
Well, mayhaps dæmons are mostly animals, is because animals have traits and behavours that differ from other animal. For example, I know a cat wouldn't act like a bear, or a bear wouldn't act like a wolf. Humans have different personailties and all as well, but it's not easy to compare one person to another. Example, "You know, Ashely acts like Bob. And I act like Bob, so my dæmon must be like Bob." But then, our behavours are harder to disect, also. I just believe it's much easier to say, "Well, I act very similar to a rat, so a rat must be my dæmon." You know what I mean?
Edit: Whoa. That's really off topic..o.o Sorry guys.
|
|
|
Post by maia on Aug 14, 2004 14:32:07 GMT -5
Yeah, even though gut instinct goes a long way in determining the form of your daemon together, I also think that it is also affected by a lot of extremely subtle things that also have an effect.You may not even be aware of them.Its like what Okibi said somewhere on her site, 3 people could be very alike, but the subtle differences between them may influence subtle differences in their daemons appearances. One person may have an arctic hare daemon with a winter coat, one with a summer coat, and one with an unusual eye colour, or unique markings......
|
|
|
Post by Cat on Aug 17, 2004 19:40:24 GMT -5
There could be a dozen other people out there that have mongoose dæmons. But my dæmon is a SLENDER mongoose, and my dæmon wears a red collar with two gold tags on it, and if he is working himself up into anger or indignation he speaks with a British accent, which I'll never understand. My dæmon has a black tip on his tail, and black ears, and his eyes are black unless hit with light, where they appear reddish. So there could be some other Slender mongoose out there, who will never match Pocket exactly. There are way too many subtle differences among dæmons. And I believe that somehow every one of those little things must affect me in some way ... but I'm still trying to figure it out.
|
|
Ra
dæmian
- ra + rome; resident wolverines -
Posts: 321
|
Post by Ra on Aug 18, 2004 19:26:55 GMT -5
Ooh. My dæmon is the same way. Compared to a regular wolverine, he is quite large and fluffy with lots, and lots of fur. If you see the first picture of him in the Pictures section, you'd understand his size. But still. His colour is the thing that sticks out for me. He's black and silver with foresty, peircing green eyes. (As a human, he has black, spiked hair with silver/green tips. I love the colour green.) But I totaly understand where you're coming from, Cat.
|
|
|
Post by SNL_Ali on Aug 18, 2004 19:45:02 GMT -5
I feel the same way too....Tib doesn't look like an ordinary swan goose.....his color has more silver in it, like a Barnacle goose, and is a bit larger, more adapted to colder temperatures, like the Barnacle goose also. He is like a unique species altogether...I haven't encountered anyone else with a goose daemon (save Serafina Pekkala.....but fictional characters don't count ) and even if I did, Tib would be unique from any of them. It wouldn't make sense if your daemon looked just like another person's, since no two people are exactly the same. Even twins have different daemons! I like the originality though....it makes you interesting.
|
|
|
Post by Annie on Aug 18, 2004 20:29:33 GMT -5
Rano's forms are always original. Sometimes he'll be something normal if I'm trying to concentrate on something else. He always has one dark green eye with silver in it. He never changes it. He's in a form right now that looks like a red panda, but darker in color. I think it has flecks of silver in it. The creamy-white marks on normal ones are dark grey frosted with silver on him. (I've noticed that he likes the dark grey frosted with silver thing...) He feels like he stands out if he is a normal colored animal. Weird, I know, but it feels right when he explains it to me. He can't describe it in words though, or I'd put down his reasons.
|
|
|
Post by maia on Aug 20, 2004 13:44:10 GMT -5
Yay! Red Panda's rule! Mox:"Too right!"
|
|
|
Post by Keira on Aug 20, 2004 18:15:36 GMT -5
I don't have a name for my daemon either. He has just recently settled (though not fully) as a bald eagle. And I know that that's what he is because it just feels right to me. I mean if you could choose your daemon's settled form, I wouldn't have chosen a bird of any kind (as much as I love birds-they're some of my favorite animals). Because I wanted something sleek and furry. But he just started taking this form more and more and I just knew it was me on instinct. By the way, I don't have a name for him either, wei can't find anything that fits him. I have no idea what to call him.
|
|
|
Post by SNL_Ali on Aug 20, 2004 19:21:55 GMT -5
Ohhhhhhh I know the feeling. Whenever I thought of what daemon I'd like, I always pictured it would be something fuzzy and warm, and then, one day, he's a freakin GOOSE of all things. I hated the form--geese are gross things that poo on your lawn and honk all the time! *Tyb bites Ali's toes* But after a while, I'm glad he's a goose!
|
|
|
Post by Annie on Aug 20, 2004 19:35:38 GMT -5
With Rano, it's different than wanting him to be furry, it's like he has to be. He never is anything else. If he settled right now, he'd be furry, I don't know about later though. He might become completely different. Somehow I doubt it though. I think I've always felt the furrieness about him. He's just so fuzzy and warm... But it's a weird warm. It can be boiling outside, and he'll wrap himself around my neck, but It feels good. It's better when I'm cold. I almost feel myself warming up when he wraps himself around me.... Ok, that got way off subject. Anyway, he's fuzzy.
|
|