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Post by Monkey and Bellanei on Apr 4, 2006 15:21:00 GMT -5
Does anyone else think there would be limits on what dæmons could become?
Obviously, they could only become animals, but within that... how could a dæmon become a animal like a sponge? Sponges have no traits associated with them and they, well, can't move. I would assume a sponge dæmon would be impossible. And I also assume, say, worms and stuff would be impossible. Insects would probably also be impossible-for example, a ant dæmon would mean their mindless drones and stuff, but only a few insects have any traits that would actually fit any humans.
So, I say one thing: I say dæmons can only become vertebrates. So, fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds and mammals. An invertebrates would be impossible or very,very hard to have so they would be nearly impossible.
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zairsgrl
rising dæmian
~Arzairrah, Light of my Heart, Heart of my Soul
Posts: 13
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Post by zairsgrl on Apr 4, 2006 16:10:13 GMT -5
Insects aren't impossible. I know someone who's settled as a butterfly and someone else who's a dragonfly, and Zair became a cricket today for kicks. I also know someone who's settled as a scorpion, and i don't know if that's an invertebrate.... As for the sponges and all, I think it's possible for an unsettled daemon to become one (not sure about microscopic bacteria though ) since they *are* animals, but no one would ever settle as one. I've always had personal doubts about daemons becoming anime and all. Sure, you can *vizualize* them like that, but they'd really never be that way and they'd definintly never settle like that. But animals that are at least *animals,* if mythical--unicorn, pegasus, dragon, ect.--are all resonable.
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Post by Monkey and Bellanei on Apr 4, 2006 16:36:15 GMT -5
Erm, bacteria aren't considered 'animals'. I would say that most insects cannot be a settled form-but some, i.e butterflies, scorpions etc., have stuff associated with them so it would be possible.
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Post by |3200k1 on Apr 4, 2006 22:05:56 GMT -5
-Only insects with meanings attached to ther forms or obvious traits. -No extinct animals -No created animals (i.e.Pokemon) -There are limits to hybrids
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Post by Okibi on Apr 5, 2006 8:00:05 GMT -5
As for the sponges and all, I think it's possible for an unsettled daemon to become one (not sure about microscopic bacteria though ) since they *are* animals, but no one would ever settle as one. I agree with you there. But... I can't even imagine a dæmon becoming a sponge, even if it was for a minute. There aren't any restrictions in this world, since dæmons aren't physical, but remember how Pan could only become that ONE kind of cat? I believe there are certain physical restrictions for them, like they couldn't become a cartoon or certain invertebrates -- only animals they could actually settle as. Thus, Pan becomes a dragon, but not a sponge. =) Anime creatures are extremely unlikely because they often have a human personality, even if their body isn't that of a human. Dæmons can't settle as humans, and anime creatures are the same idea (like my own Rookie's Japoro form). In order for a dæmon here to be able to settle as a cartoon, that fictional species would have to be VERY detailed... have a whole list of made-up habits and temperament for it to be able to reflect a person well. I also think extinct animals are possible. Don't we have a dire wolf here? Plus, if something that's now extinct is what fits you best... What if tigers became extinct during our lifetime. People with settled tiger dæmons would still have tiger dæmons, right? EDIT: Oh, and happy birthday, Monkey! ^_^
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zairsgrl
rising dæmian
~Arzairrah, Light of my Heart, Heart of my Soul
Posts: 13
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Post by zairsgrl on Apr 5, 2006 16:21:30 GMT -5
-Only insects with meanings attached to ther forms or obvious traits. -No extinct animals -No created animals (i.e.Pokemon) -There are limits to hybrids I agree. For the extinct stuff, someone could be a recently extinct subspecies of lion I guess, but no T-rexes. Definently limits to hybrids. No dolphin/wolf cross. As for what Okibi said, yes, Pan could only become one kind of cat, but he could probably also only become one kind of sponge. ^_^ He was a fly once, remember? I'm sorry, but I can't think it's possible to settle as a fly. I still think unsettled daemons can become any animal, as long as it *is* an animal, but there are restrictions on *settled* forms. Happy B-Day Monkey!
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Post by |3200k1 on Apr 5, 2006 19:07:08 GMT -5
Based on my theory of what happens to daimons after death and rebirth and reincarnation and such, the daimons pretty much become their animal whenever we're whereever we are in between lives; therefore, if it's extinct, a daimon couldn't be it.
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Post by Key & Nax on Apr 6, 2006 13:13:59 GMT -5
While someone's dæmon was still unsettled, I can see them coming up with some wacky forms for quick entertainment, but I have a hard time imagining them actually spending a large amount of time in that form, much less settling as it. I'm with you all on the idea that dæmons wouldn't settle as cartoon creatures or invented animals - I'm pretty sure that the form would have to be from the real world. Although there is the whole question of mythical animals I think that they'd be exceptionally rare, if it was possible for a dæmon to settle as one. I swear I remember, in Northern Lights, when Lyra goes down to the crypts below Jordan and finds the Masters' graves with pictures of their dæmons, that one has a basilisk engraved on it. I know the books provide guidelines rather than specific rules, but in HDM we saw a couple of insect dæmons. The ones I can remember are a butterfly and a beetle - both relatively large and noticeable and much easier to relate to a human than a gnat or a house-fly, I suppose because their habits are easier to study and they're more complex. I think that vertebrate dæmons would be a lot more common than invertebrate dæmons, but that invertebrates wouldn't be impossible. But yeah, that's just my two cents.
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⅓
rising dæmian
more likely reptilian than not.
Posts: 65
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Post by ⅓ on Apr 7, 2006 1:59:27 GMT -5
I swear I remember, in Northern Lights, when Lyra goes down to the crypts below Jordan and finds the Masters' graves with pictures of their dæmons, that one has a basilisk engraved on it. Now that's a form that would be awkward to have... "Don't look at my daemon. No seriously. He might turn you to stone." As for the argument--I'm not sure what I think. I've been inundated with papers and not really been able to talk to Dveya about it and gather my thoughts. Where I stand at the moment is--it's all possible, but various forms are going to be less likely than others. I mean, you could very well have a deep-sea angler fish for a daemon, but that would be a little weird and ... well, deadly, if they were physical. And on Brooke's argument against extinct, mythic, etc.--if I grant reincarnation being what happens, I'd disagree with you on that quality negating possibility of the daemon being something extinct/etc. Mostly because if I believe in anything, it's that there are multiple dimensions of infinite possibilities, and I don't know why we would be confined to one world for an eternity of reincarnation cycles. So if your daemon happened to be something extinct on this world, it could very well exist in another dimension and while you were... floating wherever/doing whatever, s/he/it could live out an existence at one of those spots. Though I do think that may be a plausible argument for why extinct or mythic daemons would be more rare--it's only going to happen after your soul has reached a point where it needs a scenery change to focus on a different aspect of life, and therefore, while your outlook will still be similar to your previous one and so your soul should settle similarly, you've changed locale, so the animal they take may not exist in the current planet/universe's present or even past. Excuse my wording; when I get tired I seem to talk like a textbook... or like a drunk... or maybe a mixture. Anyway, no idea if that made sense, but sure. Apparently that's kinda my stance. Except that you don't believe in reincarnation. ...it's what makes most sense at the moment, whether I believe or not. The main thing I'm against is a daemon can take the form of nothing with sentience, because sentient beings are going to have daemons, not be one. Which, to me would rule out humans and certain sorts of dragons, fae, and celestials (though it's hard to determine when there are none to study on Earth), etc.
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zairsgrl
rising dæmian
~Arzairrah, Light of my Heart, Heart of my Soul
Posts: 13
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Post by zairsgrl on Apr 7, 2006 11:45:01 GMT -5
The main thing I'm against is a daemon can take the form of nothing with sentience, because sentient beings are going to have daemons, not be one. Which, to me would rule out humans and certain sorts of dragons, fae, and celestials (though it's hard to determine when there are none to study on Earth), etc. I agree. ^_^ Certain sorts of unicorns, too. And centaurs. Can you imagine someone whose daemon is a centaur?
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Post by Hailey and Loki on Apr 7, 2006 16:10:07 GMT -5
For the basilisk thing, isn't there a species of lizard known as the basilisk? It's also called the Jesus lizard because it can walk on water. *shrugs* That's what I had always assumed it was. Oh, and Li, I really like your views. They make sense to me. ^-^ Course, I believe that Loki and I will go to the afterlife together and then be reborn into a human/daemon pair. I like talking about reincarnation. There's a bunch of people at my school who believe in it. It really changes your perspective on things. o.o Back to the real topic...I'm doubtful about sponges and stuff. All people have something special about their personality that would be reflected in their daemon's form. However, I think insects are quite possible. Loki loved being a dragonfly and a butterfly. And I think mythical forms are possible as well. It all depends on how you imagine that creature. For example, when someone says 'unicorn' I think of a shy and caution, nimble deer-like creature with a lion tail, cloven hooves and a white horn. Other people could imagine it as something else (like a poweful and wise horse-like creature.) It all depends. Oh, and plant daemons. That's a weird one. Personally, I think someone with a plant daemon wouldn't know their daemon. Envisioning them would be...not fun. XD
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Post by Monkey and Bellanei on Apr 7, 2006 16:44:05 GMT -5
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⅓
rising dæmian
more likely reptilian than not.
Posts: 65
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Post by ⅓ on Apr 8, 2006 0:32:50 GMT -5
Ahh, interesting. The more you know. Zephyr--I don't know what I believe about the reincarnation, part, actually. xD I think I'm more inclined to believe we don't separate (in the case we don't just disappear from existence entirely)--especially not long enough for the daemon to live a physical life. Wei haven't, and probably won't, come to a descision on what happens when wei die, though. But it's fun to think about. Can you imagine someone whose daemon is a centaur? That would be kinda weird... well I guess it would depend on the sort of centaur. I can kind of imagine a feral centaur. It just doesn't make much sense with our world's fictional recollection of centaurs as being wise and distant.
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Sil and Veil
dæmian
"I'm not frigging Bambi you know."-Veil
Posts: 325
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Post by Sil and Veil on Apr 8, 2006 10:38:52 GMT -5
I do believe daemons can take mythical forms (as long as they aren't part human). As for extinct forms...as long as the creature is reasonably complex, I see no problem.
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Post by Tyrannus et Callida on Apr 9, 2006 12:02:36 GMT -5
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