Reassurance for a skeptic

[Amelia]

I'm an agnostic with atheist leanings. I don't believe in ghosts or Deaths. I am very decided on this point. I'm with the logical, scientific crowd. But the nature of consciousness is still a mystery. So anyway I was wondering if any of you guys had some hard evidence that might serve as reassurance for a skeptic, proving that daemons are real. I've been looking out for this stuff on my own. For instance, the fact that daemons change on their own, without us consciously willing them to change.

Any others?

Uh oh, my daemon is bristling a bit, getting offended....gotta go!

[SNL_Ali]

For me, daemons=souls=conciousness, so I think I'll put up what I typed in on another forum here. I'm not trying to convert you or anything (I don't even have a particular religion yet, I just have my beliefs and I'm happy with that). This proved my faith to me, hopefully It'll help ya a bit. Here it goes!

If you had your arm cut off, would you still be you?

Yes.

If you had your arms and your legs and your eyes and your nose and your ears and your hair cut off and were missing a kidney, would you still be you?

Yes.

If you couldn't read or do math or even concentrate on anything very well, would you still be you?

Yes.

When you're asleep and not thinking of anything, would it still be you?

Yes.

So you're not your body, and you're not your mind. Your soul/daemon/conciousness is that other part that makes you YOU.

Tell me if you want me to continue, hope that helped!

*hugs skeptic Amelia*

[Amelia]

*enjoys hug* yes continue please! I believe that there's an order in the universe, the stars are not placed randomly. I don't now much about math but I think the answer is somewhere in something called Chaos Theory, which is finding patterns in the brain. The key to the universe. I also believe there's something special about humans. We seem to have the most refined consciousness of all living things. But why? And what is it?Sometimes I wonder what might have happened if the conscious beings had been descended from canids or felids instead of primates....we would be like the Mulefa, people but not human. It's not our humanity that makes us people (contrary to the popular etymology of words such as "humane"...hehehe), it's our consciousness. Primates have minds, but not true consciousness. They don't ask where they came from. They're sort of like very young humans, with still-undeveloped consciousness.

What I'm needing reassurance about is the fact that we have daemons, a separate entity from us. Well, not separare, but you know what I mean.

[Annie]

Hm... well my belief is that daemons are our souls and the part that is not our daemon, but not our bodies, is our consiousness. The consiousness can not exist without the daemon, and the other way around. I dunno how to make it into solid proof, but I can try...
Ok, have you ever heard about out of body experiences? People 'rising out of their bodies' and going around the room. One woman identified objects in the room where she was having surgery, when she was technically dead. I've been technically dead before, and I think my consiousness went somewhere else because my heart stopped, my breathing stopped and I was basically brain-dead for 3 hours(or was it 4?) I remember 'dreaming' during that time. I remember 2 people talking. And it was sunny, and I was in the grass by a river or lake. The sun was warm, but the air was cool. The sky was clear with a few whispy clouds. What I most remember is the distinct feeling that a converstation was going on nearby. Recently I came up with the theory that my death and daemon were talking to each other. Discussing what was going to happen. I think one of them yelled at some point. Maybe my death was trying to lead me away and Rano wouldn't let him(her. whatever) Heh...it could just be a dream I had a long time ago and just think it was during my surgery, but I do remember that I had brain activity during the period when I was 'dead'.

Er...was that even close to being useful? If not, then you've got a little bit of my background info. It was strange anyway.

[Riakar]

If you don't mind me asking, what were you having surgery for?

Ky: And, on a completely unrelated note, did Ian's hair shrink?

[Aleandra]

*give amelia a cookie*

I'm exactly like you...very scientific mind. i kept doubting before but if you know a bit about Freud it's simple. Daemons are your deep hidden side. What you surpress and hide from the world. But in letting him/her out you are accepting yourself as an entity, let your "wild side" out. You listen to him, to what he has to say, it can hold wisdom. Because it is the part that society has made us hide. bringing him out is just being at peace with yourself.

dunno if that was clear for you. bah, ask questions if you need help on this...erm...poor excuse of an explanation. I'd go further, but you'd boo me and throw tomatoes. And i alreayd said all i thought about this ina nother thread of yours. We have very alike minds apparently.

(edit: hannah!i'm doing a TPE on dreams and unusual interpretations. would you grant me an "interview"? not that i'm being nozy or anyhting i don't want to offend, but it is very interesting)

[Kirjavi]

Amelia, I only know too well what that feels like. When I first met Kir, my problems were never seeing or hearing him but believing in him. I am also a real skeptic and I kept thinking that I had gone crazy and that I was talking to myself and just imagining things. I even gave up my belief in daemons for a few months. But the thought kept coming back to me, as if haunting me, and then I finally I saw him again, but I had my doubts. Then finally, my belief strengthened and we haven't had any problems since. Although, I still wonder if he really is there sometimes, but that's just in my nature. So don't worry, you're not the only one! I went through the same thing!

[ice]

Me three!
I used to have that feeling, but I like having Lass around, so I thought of other things.

[rave & phair]

Hmm.. I had my doubts too. I still occasionally think, "What if he's not real and I'm just crazy?" Then Darkett pecks me in the face and I snap out of it. Even if I am hallucinating, Darkett is the best thing that's happened to me, and I'm not giving him up!

[Kirjavi]

Good point. I'll have to remember that next time I feel I'm crazy. ::wack from Kirjavi:: Although lately, I haven't had any doubts at all. Kir and I have felt closer than ever and it barely takes anything to see him or speak with him. Hei even starts some of the conversations and I can almost feel him around me all the time, even when I'm not looking directly at him.

[Kiba]

It is a concept sometimes hard to grasp but here goes nothing. on Okibi's daemon page in the facts section it talks about a german scientist who on peoples death beds would way them and after there death 21 grams of weight would just disapear. well in theory that is your soul you are mayde up of three things mind body and soul. wei believe that your soul ( aka daemon ) can be projected in physical form. now a human wouldn't realy work now would it? hence animal form. and why do they change without willing them to? well they do have a concincenous and a free will being apart of us yet seperate in unique ways.